Please note the incredible coincidence, once again, of news heating up at home and a coup abroad. Qusay and Uday have been killed. DNA verification came within hours. Let's stop talking about what the President said or didn't say; ok, he said it, but let's stop talking about what it meant; ok, it was crystal clear what it meant, let's stop talking about whether it was true; ok, it was definitely not true, let's stop talking about whether the President was aware it wasn't true ... Qusay and Uday are dead! Iraq will definitely be moving on to freedom now ... there are literally no impediments to democracy now ... The Pentagon, having never lied or twisted facts before, would never, ever, ever say that those two were in that utterly destroyed, twisted, charred ruin if they were, in fact not. Nor would they tell the entire world this was the case if they were not 100% certain. The rest of this discussion takes the form of a chat conversation. The article referred to is <a href="http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=36&ItemID=3940" source="ZNet" author="Noam Chomsky">Common sense Interview</a>. The chat is included for the hell of it. Names have been changed for the hell of it. [23:33] Pater: hi, there is a new Chomsky interview on ZNet; it has a great line: [23:33] Pater: <iq>if you ask me whether or not I'm an atheist, I wouldn't even answer. I would first want an explanation of what it is that I'm supposed to not believe in, and I've never seen an explanation.</iq> [23:33] Chronos: I read that today ... there was another great line in it....just a sec.... [23:34] Chronos: <iq>For one thing, I wouldn't call it an anti-globalization movement; that's a term invented by those who want to pursue the dominant form of globalization. The people opposed to what I would call "investor rights globalization" are not opposed to globalization. I don't know of anybody who's opposed to globalization. Certainly not the Left and the labor movement - they were founded on the concept of internationalism, and that's a kind of globalization.</iq> [23:34] Pater: yeah, that term gets bandied about so much [23:35] Chronos: That's a nicely succinct way of quashing that crap-ass 'anti-globalization' thing by showing it for the straw man it is. [23:35] Chronos: Speaking of sparkly, distracting things meant to take away the power of more important arguments ...... I trust you've heard of porn-king Uday and Qusay's sad, sad demise? [23:36] Pater: indeed [23:36] Pater: the departed souls were sold out, 15 mil is a decent sum to collect [23:36] Pater: violent lives, violent end by a violent foe [23:37] Chronos: Let's see, DNA evidence within hours, just the charred remains of a few buildings as evidence, press attention *swings* 180 degrees away from Bush's lies and we have what something that Karl Rove is probably smugly smiling to himself about right now. [23:37] Pater: I guess if they got both in the same house, it could be 30 million [23:37] Pater: very true and pertinent [23:38] Chronos: That is, of course, assuming, that IT"S NOT ALL JUST MADE UP TO DISTRACT US, just like all the other shit we've had shoveled down our throats --- ahem, Jessie Lynch. [23:38] Pater: she must be quite bewildered [23:38] Pater: she looked good in the uniform [23:39] Chronos: Yeah, that's a good word for .... I'd be bewildered too if I'd just spent 3 months in 'debriefing' with the government. [23:39] Pater: these days, what is funny to read is that the Americans keep fighting Saddam loyalists [23:39] Chronos: Yeah, she's quite a hot piece of meat. I can't wait for the TV movie, maybe Showtime will snap it up and we'll see a few seconds of nipple. [23:40] Chronos: No shit --- that place Iraq is just thick with them --- if there are so many loyalists, does that mean he was popular? [23:40] Pater: loyalist here, loyalist there --- never does the media say clearly people opposed to Americans are killing Amerincans; though they do mention oppositions and high tensions [23:41] Chronos: And the media are very brave to mention those things --- sometimes they seem to dance dangerously close to actually providing information that is useful, then they prance away again. [23:42] Pater: this interview is just great , his answer to <iq>is marriage a form of oppression</iq><span style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 85%">1</span> so clear [23:42] Chronos: Yeah, only cause his wife would just kick his ass if he didn't deliver her carefully worded answer correctly. [23:42] Pater: appropriately titled "Common sense Interview" --- I guess they would ask these kinds of questions [23:50] *** Pater signed off at Thu Jul 24 23:50:35 2003. <div class="quote-block"><span style="vertical-align: super; font-size: 85%">1</span>There's nothing inherently oppressive about marriage, and in fact non-marital relations can also be oppressive. If you really pursue that argument, then sex ought to be outlawed, language ought to be outlawed. Language has been used as a technique of oppression forever. We should stop talking.</div>